[jetty-users] Vert.x-like functionality in Jetty?

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
10 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

[jetty-users] Vert.x-like functionality in Jetty?

Otis Gospodnetic
Hi,

Is there anything in Jetty (any version) that is Vert.x (see http://vertx.io/ ) like?
I'm mainly referring to scalability and concurrency, as well as that distributed event bus.

Thanks,
Otis 
----
Performance Monitoring for Solr / ElasticSearch / HBase - http://sematext.com/spm 

_______________________________________________
jetty-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jetty-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [jetty-users] Vert.x-like functionality in Jetty?

Simone Bordet-2
Hi,

On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 7:04 AM, Otis Gospodnetic
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Is there anything in Jetty (any version) that is Vert.x (see http://vertx.io/ ) like?
> I'm mainly referring to scalability and concurrency, as well as that distributed event bus.

You should have a look at CometD, http://cometd.org.

CometD is a web messaging platform, it scales well (see
http://webtide.intalio.com/2011/09/cometd-2-4-0-websocket-benchmarks/),
it's mature (years of experience) and has been successfully deployed
on small and large systems for years now, relying on standard
technologies such as Servlets and WebSocket.

What is it that appealed you in Vert.x, apart the (frankly
irrealistic) benchmark it was published some time ago, that you would
like to see in Jetty/CometD ?

Simon
--
http://cometd.org
http://intalio.com
http://bordet.blogspot.com
----
Finally, no matter how good the architecture and design are,
to deliver bug-free software with optimal performance and reliability,
the implementation technique must be flawless.   Victoria Livschitz
_______________________________________________
jetty-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jetty-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [jetty-users] Vert.x-like functionality in Jetty?

Otis Gospodnetic
Hi,

Are you saying CometD provides the same scalability and concurrency Vert.x claims to provide?
If CometD provides (and has been providing for years) the high scalability and concurrency support, what's all Vert.x all about?  Is it the case that while CometD may provide the same stuff Vert.x does, CometD is not widely known or is at least not as popular? (if so, that can be critical for its future)

Thanks,
Otis 
----
Performance Monitoring for Solr / ElasticSearch / HBase - http://sematext.com/spm 


From: Simone Bordet <[hidden email]>
To: Otis Gospodnetic <[hidden email]>; JETTY user mailing list <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 2:48 AM
Subject: Re: [jetty-users] Vert.x-like functionality in Jetty?

Hi,

On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 7:04 AM, Otis Gospodnetic
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Is there anything in Jetty (any version) that is Vert.x (see <a href="http://vertx.io/ " target="_blank">http://vertx.io/ ) like?
> I'm mainly referring to scalability and concurrency, as well as that distributed event bus.

You should have a look at CometD, http://cometd.org.

CometD is a web messaging platform, it scales well (see
http://webtide.intalio.com/2011/09/cometd-2-4-0-websocket-benchmarks/),
it's mature (years of experience) and has been successfully deployed
on small and large systems for years now, relying on standard
technologies such as Servlets and WebSocket.

What is it that appealed you in Vert.x, apart the (frankly
irrealistic) benchmark it was published some time ago, that you would
like to see in Jetty/CometD ?

Simon
--
http://cometd.org
http://intalio.com
http://bordet.blogspot.com
----
Finally, no matter how good the architecture and design are,
to deliver bug-free software with optimal performance and reliability,
the implementation technique must be flawless.   Victoria Livschitz



_______________________________________________
jetty-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jetty-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [jetty-users] Vert.x-like functionality in Jetty?

Simone Bordet-2
Hi,

On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Otis Gospodnetic
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Are you saying CometD provides the same scalability and concurrency Vert.x
> claims to provide?

Look carefully at the Vert.x benchmark: they open 6 (six) connections
and pipeline on each 2000 requests.
How realistic is such traffic ?

I am sure Vert.x 1.0 is a fine framework and all that, but I'd like to
see a more realistic benchmark before expressing an opinion.
That is what we tried to achieve with the CometD benchmark, which
implements a chat application, with 1k, 5k 10k up to 200k connected
users to a single server and different message rates.

> If CometD provides (and has been providing for years) the high scalability
> and concurrency support, what's all Vert.x all about?

Ask them :)
To me, it's about diversity.
Why there exist more than one servlet container ?

> Is it the case that
> while CometD may provide the same stuff Vert.x does, CometD is not widely
> known or is at least not as popular? (if so, that can be critical for its
> future)

Not sure what Vert.x provides yet (have not looked in details), but
CometD provides authentication hooks, fine-grained access control,
message acknowledgment and guaranteed server-to-client message
delivery on short network failures, a fully extensible framework,
transport independence and fallback, automatic reconnections, and I
can continue for a while.

I heard about Vert.x one month or less ago, actually, so I personally
do not classify it as "popular" just because it had a spike in tweets.

Evaluate both frameworks and choose the one that fits your case better.

You have not said what is it in Vert.x that appeals you. It's just the
benchmark result ?

Simon
--
http://cometd.org
http://intalio.com
http://bordet.blogspot.com
----
Finally, no matter how good the architecture and design are,
to deliver bug-free software with optimal performance and reliability,
the implementation technique must be flawless.   Victoria Livschitz
_______________________________________________
jetty-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jetty-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [jetty-users] Vert.x-like functionality in Jetty?

Otis Gospodnetic
Thanks Simone,

I think Vert.x has more than just a spike of tweets, though :)

What I'm after is something that can handle a high number of concurrent connections from an HTTP client (e.g. Apache HttpClient) to an HTTP server (Jetty?).  You can see in my sig why I'm interested in this....

Thanks,
Otis 
----
Performance Monitoring for Solr / ElasticSearch / HBase - http://sematext.com/spm 




----- Original Message -----

> From: Simone Bordet <[hidden email]>
> To: Otis Gospodnetic <[hidden email]>; JETTY user mailing list <[hidden email]>
> Cc:
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 5:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [jetty-users] Vert.x-like functionality in Jetty?
>
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Otis Gospodnetic
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>  Hi,
>>
>>  Are you saying CometD provides the same scalability and concurrency Vert.x
>>  claims to provide?
>
> Look carefully at the Vert.x benchmark: they open 6 (six) connections
> and pipeline on each 2000 requests.
> How realistic is such traffic ?
>
> I am sure Vert.x 1.0 is a fine framework and all that, but I'd like to
> see a more realistic benchmark before expressing an opinion.
> That is what we tried to achieve with the CometD benchmark, which
> implements a chat application, with 1k, 5k 10k up to 200k connected
> users to a single server and different message rates.
>
>>  If CometD provides (and has been providing for years) the high scalability
>>  and concurrency support, what's all Vert.x all about?
>
> Ask them :)
> To me, it's about diversity.
> Why there exist more than one servlet container ?
>
>>  Is it the case that
>>  while CometD may provide the same stuff Vert.x does, CometD is not widely
>>  known or is at least not as popular? (if so, that can be critical for its
>>  future)
>
> Not sure what Vert.x provides yet (have not looked in details), but
> CometD provides authentication hooks, fine-grained access control,
> message acknowledgment and guaranteed server-to-client message
> delivery on short network failures, a fully extensible framework,
> transport independence and fallback, automatic reconnections, and I
> can continue for a while.
>
> I heard about Vert.x one month or less ago, actually, so I personally
> do not classify it as "popular" just because it had a spike in tweets.
>
> Evaluate both frameworks and choose the one that fits your case better.
>
> You have not said what is it in Vert.x that appeals you. It's just the
> benchmark result ?
>
> Simon
> --
> http://cometd.org
> http://intalio.com
> http://bordet.blogspot.com
> ----
> Finally, no matter how good the architecture and design are,
> to deliver bug-free software with optimal performance and reliability,
> the implementation technique must be flawless.   Victoria Livschitz
>
_______________________________________________
jetty-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jetty-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [jetty-users] Vert.x-like functionality in Jetty?

Simone Bordet-2
Hi,

On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 11:32 PM, Otis Gospodnetic
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thanks Simone,
>
> I think Vert.x has more than just a spike of tweets, though :)
>
> What I'm after is something that can handle a high number of concurrent connections from an HTTP client (e.g. Apache HttpClient) to an HTTP server (Jetty?).  You can see in my sig why I'm interested in this....

Well, then CometD and Jetty have been deployed to "high" numbers since
years on a number of customers.
As I said, evaluate yourself, and if you have questions, just ask away.

Simon
--
http://cometd.org
http://intalio.com
http://bordet.blogspot.com
----
Finally, no matter how good the architecture and design are,
to deliver bug-free software with optimal performance and reliability,
the implementation technique must be flawless.   Victoria Livschitz
_______________________________________________
jetty-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jetty-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [jetty-users] Vert.x-like functionality in Jetty?

Coda Hale
In reply to this post by Otis Gospodnetic
Jetty's SelectChannelConnector can manage ~200K connected clients
fairly easily. You can use Jetty's continuations API (or the
equivalent in Servlet 3.0 w/ Jetty 8+) to allow idle connections to be
parked efficiently.

This is what CometD does, and it's currently handling ~100K connected
clients in production at Yammer.

(It's also worth noting that even a thread-per-connection model on a
modern Linux system with a large heap can handle hundreds of thousands
of concurrent connections. It's less memory efficient, but it's still
very doable.)

On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 2:32 PM, Otis Gospodnetic
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Thanks Simone,
>
> I think Vert.x has more than just a spike of tweets, though :)
>
> What I'm after is something that can handle a high number of concurrent connections from an HTTP client (e.g. Apache HttpClient) to an HTTP server (Jetty?).  You can see in my sig why I'm interested in this....
>
> Thanks,
> Otis
> ----
> Performance Monitoring for Solr / ElasticSearch / HBase - http://sematext.com/spm
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Simone Bordet <[hidden email]>
>> To: Otis Gospodnetic <[hidden email]>; JETTY user mailing list <[hidden email]>
>> Cc:
>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 5:16 PM
>> Subject: Re: [jetty-users] Vert.x-like functionality in Jetty?
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Otis Gospodnetic
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>  Hi,
>>>
>>>  Are you saying CometD provides the same scalability and concurrency Vert.x
>>>  claims to provide?
>>
>> Look carefully at the Vert.x benchmark: they open 6 (six) connections
>> and pipeline on each 2000 requests.
>> How realistic is such traffic ?
>>
>> I am sure Vert.x 1.0 is a fine framework and all that, but I'd like to
>> see a more realistic benchmark before expressing an opinion.
>> That is what we tried to achieve with the CometD benchmark, which
>> implements a chat application, with 1k, 5k 10k up to 200k connected
>> users to a single server and different message rates.
>>
>>>  If CometD provides (and has been providing for years) the high scalability
>>>  and concurrency support, what's all Vert.x all about?
>>
>> Ask them :)
>> To me, it's about diversity.
>> Why there exist more than one servlet container ?
>>
>>>  Is it the case that
>>>  while CometD may provide the same stuff Vert.x does, CometD is not widely
>>>  known or is at least not as popular? (if so, that can be critical for its
>>>  future)
>>
>> Not sure what Vert.x provides yet (have not looked in details), but
>> CometD provides authentication hooks, fine-grained access control,
>> message acknowledgment and guaranteed server-to-client message
>> delivery on short network failures, a fully extensible framework,
>> transport independence and fallback, automatic reconnections, and I
>> can continue for a while.
>>
>> I heard about Vert.x one month or less ago, actually, so I personally
>> do not classify it as "popular" just because it had a spike in tweets.
>>
>> Evaluate both frameworks and choose the one that fits your case better.
>>
>> You have not said what is it in Vert.x that appeals you. It's just the
>> benchmark result ?
>>
>> Simon
>> --
>> http://cometd.org
>> http://intalio.com
>> http://bordet.blogspot.com
>> ----
>> Finally, no matter how good the architecture and design are,
>> to deliver bug-free software with optimal performance and reliability,
>> the implementation technique must be flawless.   Victoria Livschitz
>>
> _______________________________________________
> jetty-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jetty-users



--
Coda Hale
http://codahale.com
_______________________________________________
jetty-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jetty-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [jetty-users] Vert.x-like functionality in Jetty?

Jesse McConnell
Not to mention two of the systems you call out in your signature, Solr
and Hdfs, use jetty (solr as part of a distro I think and hdfs as the
http server used to serve ranges of files around down in its guts)

google app engine and gwt uses jetty under the covers as well...

but your on a jetty mailing list so...you will get responses biased
towards jetty :)

jesse

--
jesse mcconnell
[hidden email]


On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Coda Hale <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Jetty's SelectChannelConnector can manage ~200K connected clients
> fairly easily. You can use Jetty's continuations API (or the
> equivalent in Servlet 3.0 w/ Jetty 8+) to allow idle connections to be
> parked efficiently.
>
> This is what CometD does, and it's currently handling ~100K connected
> clients in production at Yammer.
>
> (It's also worth noting that even a thread-per-connection model on a
> modern Linux system with a large heap can handle hundreds of thousands
> of concurrent connections. It's less memory efficient, but it's still
> very doable.)
>
> On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 2:32 PM, Otis Gospodnetic
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Thanks Simone,
>>
>> I think Vert.x has more than just a spike of tweets, though :)
>>
>> What I'm after is something that can handle a high number of concurrent connections from an HTTP client (e.g. Apache HttpClient) to an HTTP server (Jetty?).  You can see in my sig why I'm interested in this....
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Otis
>> ----
>> Performance Monitoring for Solr / ElasticSearch / HBase - http://sematext.com/spm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Simone Bordet <[hidden email]>
>>> To: Otis Gospodnetic <[hidden email]>; JETTY user mailing list <[hidden email]>
>>> Cc:
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 5:16 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [jetty-users] Vert.x-like functionality in Jetty?
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Otis Gospodnetic
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>  Hi,
>>>>
>>>>  Are you saying CometD provides the same scalability and concurrency Vert.x
>>>>  claims to provide?
>>>
>>> Look carefully at the Vert.x benchmark: they open 6 (six) connections
>>> and pipeline on each 2000 requests.
>>> How realistic is such traffic ?
>>>
>>> I am sure Vert.x 1.0 is a fine framework and all that, but I'd like to
>>> see a more realistic benchmark before expressing an opinion.
>>> That is what we tried to achieve with the CometD benchmark, which
>>> implements a chat application, with 1k, 5k 10k up to 200k connected
>>> users to a single server and different message rates.
>>>
>>>>  If CometD provides (and has been providing for years) the high scalability
>>>>  and concurrency support, what's all Vert.x all about?
>>>
>>> Ask them :)
>>> To me, it's about diversity.
>>> Why there exist more than one servlet container ?
>>>
>>>>  Is it the case that
>>>>  while CometD may provide the same stuff Vert.x does, CometD is not widely
>>>>  known or is at least not as popular? (if so, that can be critical for its
>>>>  future)
>>>
>>> Not sure what Vert.x provides yet (have not looked in details), but
>>> CometD provides authentication hooks, fine-grained access control,
>>> message acknowledgment and guaranteed server-to-client message
>>> delivery on short network failures, a fully extensible framework,
>>> transport independence and fallback, automatic reconnections, and I
>>> can continue for a while.
>>>
>>> I heard about Vert.x one month or less ago, actually, so I personally
>>> do not classify it as "popular" just because it had a spike in tweets.
>>>
>>> Evaluate both frameworks and choose the one that fits your case better.
>>>
>>> You have not said what is it in Vert.x that appeals you. It's just the
>>> benchmark result ?
>>>
>>> Simon
>>> --
>>> http://cometd.org
>>> http://intalio.com
>>> http://bordet.blogspot.com
>>> ----
>>> Finally, no matter how good the architecture and design are,
>>> to deliver bug-free software with optimal performance and reliability,
>>> the implementation technique must be flawless.   Victoria Livschitz
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> jetty-users mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jetty-users
>
>
>
> --
> Coda Hale
> http://codahale.com
> _______________________________________________
> jetty-users mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jetty-users
_______________________________________________
jetty-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jetty-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [jetty-users] Vert.x-like functionality in Jetty?

Thomas Becker
In reply to this post by Otis Gospodnetic
Hi Otis,

would be nice to know what you've choosen in the end and why.

Cheers,
Thomas

On 5/24/12 8:59 PM, Otis Gospodnetic wrote:
Hi,

Are you saying CometD provides the same scalability and concurrency Vert.x claims to provide?
If CometD provides (and has been providing for years) the high scalability and concurrency support, what's all Vert.x all about?  Is it the case that while CometD may provide the same stuff Vert.x does, CometD is not widely known or is at least not as popular? (if so, that can be critical for its future)

Thanks,
Otis 
----
Performance Monitoring for Solr / ElasticSearch / HBase - http://sematext.com/spm 


From: Simone Bordet [hidden email]
To: Otis Gospodnetic [hidden email]; JETTY user mailing list [hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 2:48 AM
Subject: Re: [jetty-users] Vert.x-like functionality in Jetty?

Hi,

On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 7:04 AM, Otis Gospodnetic
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Is there anything in Jetty (any version) that is Vert.x (see http://vertx.io/ ) like?
> I'm mainly referring to scalability and concurrency, as well as that distributed event bus.

You should have a look at CometD, http://cometd.org.

CometD is a web messaging platform, it scales well (see
http://webtide.intalio.com/2011/09/cometd-2-4-0-websocket-benchmarks/),
it's mature (years of experience) and has been successfully deployed
on small and large systems for years now, relying on standard
technologies such as Servlets and WebSocket.

What is it that appealed you in Vert.x, apart the (frankly
irrealistic) benchmark it was published some time ago, that you would
like to see in Jetty/CometD ?

Simon
--
http://cometd.org
http://intalio.com
http://bordet.blogspot.com
----
Finally, no matter how good the architecture and design are,
to deliver bug-free software with optimal performance and reliability,
the implementation technique must be flawless.   Victoria Livschitz




_______________________________________________
jetty-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jetty-users

-- 
thomas becker
[hidden email]

http://webtide.com / http://intalio.com
(the folks behind jetty and cometd)

_______________________________________________
jetty-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jetty-users
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: [jetty-users] Vert.x-like functionality in Jetty?

Greg Wilkins-3

I've done a blog about the vert.x benchmark, which goes into a bit more detail about why that benchmark says nothing much about scalability:

  http://webtide.intalio.com/2012/05/truth-in-benchmarking/

Vert.x may well be awesome, but that benchmark does not really show it one way or the other.

cheers



On 25 May 2012 09:04, Thomas Becker <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Otis,

would be nice to know what you've choosen in the end and why.

Cheers,
Thomas


On 5/24/12 8:59 PM, Otis Gospodnetic wrote:
Hi,

Are you saying CometD provides the same scalability and concurrency Vert.x claims to provide?
If CometD provides (and has been providing for years) the high scalability and concurrency support, what's all Vert.x all about?  Is it the case that while CometD may provide the same stuff Vert.x does, CometD is not widely known or is at least not as popular? (if so, that can be critical for its future)

Thanks,
Otis 
----
Performance Monitoring for Solr / ElasticSearch / HBase - http://sematext.com/spm 


From: Simone Bordet [hidden email]
To: Otis Gospodnetic [hidden email]; JETTY user mailing list [hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 2:48 AM
Subject: Re: [jetty-users] Vert.x-like functionality in Jetty?

Hi,

On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 7:04 AM, Otis Gospodnetic
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Is there anything in Jetty (any version) that is Vert.x (see http://vertx.io/ ) like?
> I'm mainly referring to scalability and concurrency, as well as that distributed event bus.

You should have a look at CometD, http://cometd.org.

CometD is a web messaging platform, it scales well (see
http://webtide.intalio.com/2011/09/cometd-2-4-0-websocket-benchmarks/),
it's mature (years of experience) and has been successfully deployed
on small and large systems for years now, relying on standard
technologies such as Servlets and WebSocket.

What is it that appealed you in Vert.x, apart the (frankly
irrealistic) benchmark it was published some time ago, that you would
like to see in Jetty/CometD ?

Simon
--
http://cometd.org
http://intalio.com
http://bordet.blogspot.com
----
Finally, no matter how good the architecture and design are,
to deliver bug-free software with optimal performance and reliability,
the implementation technique must be flawless.   Victoria Livschitz




_______________________________________________
jetty-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jetty-users

-- 
thomas becker
[hidden email]

http://webtide.com / http://intalio.com
(the folks behind jetty and cometd)

_______________________________________________
jetty-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jetty-users



_______________________________________________
jetty-users mailing list
[hidden email]
https://dev.eclipse.org/mailman/listinfo/jetty-users