Jetty @ Eclipse ?

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Jetty @ Eclipse ?

Greg Wilkins-5

Dear Jetty committers, contributors & community,

It has been suggested that the Jetty project submit a proposal to move
to the Eclipse foundation.  This is an suggestion that I believe should
be given serious consideration as I can see benefits for all the
stakeholders.

The Eclipse foundation is about much more than the Eclipse IDE.  Through
it's equinox, OSGi and runtime efforts, it is an open source foundation
very much committed to providing the legal, procedural and technical
infrastructure for component based software, developed by communities and
used by everyone from hobbyists through enterprises.

The Jetty project is a successful HTTP server and servlet container,
developed by communities, with a component-based OSGi-friendly
architecture, used by hundreds of thousands of websites and embedded
in many many projects and products: not least the Eclipse IDE and
equinox runtime.

There are obvious synergies between Eclipse and Jetty, thus we have
already responded to the suggestion with some preliminary discussions
as to how Jetty @ Eclipse could work:

  + The Jetty 6.x version would not be effected. It would remain
    at codehaus and would continue to be maintained for some time.

  + The upcoming Jetty 7.x version for servlet-3.0 be hosted by Eclipse
    and would be dual licensed with both the current Apache 2.0 license
    and the Eclipse Public License (EPL).

  + Copyright assignment would remain as they are and the contributor
    license agreements would be updated, probably remaining substantially
    on the lines of the apache contributors agreement, but with aspects
    of the Eclipse as well.

  + The project leadership would essentially remain the same,
    but with perhaps a little less despotic power.

  + The core jetty source would be updated to use an org.eclipse
    package hierarchy.

  + Some contrib packages and bundles would remain at codehaus
    (eg grizzly, ant, hightide) or be offered to the related
    projects (eg cometd to dojo, jboss integration to redhat).
    Potentially hightide @ codehaus could receive more focus
    as the app server bundle of Jetty, while jetty @ eclipse
    would be the component based core.

  + The project would continue under the current leadership, with
    some assistance from Eclipse sponsors.  I intend to
    continue to lead the project for the foreseeable
    future.

Importantly, Jetty @ eclipse would

  - not be dependent on OSGi.  Jetty is already OSGi friendly and I
    would expect it to become more so. But Jetty will remain
    framework neutral and the components will continue to be
    able to be assembled with your choice of java, jetty XML,
    spring, OSGi, plexus, xbean, geronimo, jboss, Jonas,
    groovy, etc. etc.

  - not be a commercial deal. No payments or contracts would be
    involved. Obviously the key contributors (eg webtide) do not
    see such a move as harmful to their commercial interests, but the
    deal would not change the fact that those contributors would still
    need to find clients and sell them their particular value
    add with regards to the project.

  - not be the creation of an Eclipse Java EE application server.
    Jetty would continue to be a component that integrates
    well with many many software projects, including most
    Java EE application servers.

So is there a need to move or change? Why can't Jetty just
stay at codehaus and continue as a  despotocracy?

Well, we could just stay. but I think we would be leaving
a great opportunity on the table if we did so. An opportunity
that I see as having very little downside for the project
or the community.

The key opportunity of a move to Eclipse is to grow the
Jetty community and a growing community is good for all
parties as it:

  + brings new use-cases and ideas to the project.

  + brings new potential contributors and resources.

  + provides increased opportunities for contributors
    to make a commercial return on their investment in the
    project, and thus in turn invest more in the project.

  + maintains momentum and activity to avoid the project
    stagnating.

I believe that a move to Eclipse will grow the Jetty
community for a number of reasons:

  + Publicity of the change and use of the Eclipse brand.

  + The addition of the choice of the EPL

  + Closer relationships with the growing OSGi communities

  + Diminishing the perception that Jetty is a 1 man or
    1 company project ( although I plan to continue to
    lead the project for the foreseeable future).

  + Improved quality through more rigorous release policies
    and procedures.

  + Improved legal status through the foundations due
    diligence and procedures.

Additional positives from such a move would be:

  + taking the opportunity of repackaging to fix some
    bad practises (eg packages split over jars).

  + potentially some greater gravitas when representing
    the projects interests in standards bodies etc.

  + the opportunity to help drive the OSGi standards
    past the 2.4 servlet spec.

So what would be the down side of this?

  - There will be a bit more procedure and process needed
    before making releases.  Considering the dufas 6.1.12
    release, this is a good thing for the community and
    will only be a cost to the core contributors.

  - Developers will need to change their code to use
    the org.eclipse packages.   But this will be done
    with the move to jetty 7, which will require some
    API changes anyway, and tools can be provided to
    ease the change.    We will also take the opportunity
    to fix some of the incorrect packaging issues that
    have developed over the years.

  - There will be the faff of moving mailing lists and
    websites etc.  But I'm hoping that there may be some
    additional resources available to help improve the
    website.

  - We will be substantially moving away from codehaus,
    who have provided us with a home for many years.
    However, potentially there could be more focus on
    Hightide @ codehaus as the app server distro of jetty.

  - I don't know? you tell me? What other issues
    do you see or concerns do you have,  if we were to
    move the project to Eclipse?


The process of a move to Eclipse would be that after
soliciting feedback from yourselves I will then
solicit feedback from the jetty community.

I would prepare a proposal to be presented to the Eclipse
foundation in January 2009.   If accepted, we would target
EclipseCon in March for the code to be moved
to Eclipse, with a target stable release of Jetty 7
in time for JavaOne in June.

If any of you have explicitly maintained the copyright
of code contributed to Jetty, then I would like to seek
your confirmation that dual licensing with the EPL.

Thanks again for your contributions to this project
and I hope that together we can continue to make Jetty
a quality software component used by many.

regards




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Re: [jetty-discuss] Jetty @ Eclipse ?

Juancarlo Añez
Greg,

On my part, it's your call.

One of the risks I see is that eclipsefying Jetty could make it more
complex, when one of the hallmarks of Jetty is simplicity and minimalism.

Juanca
--
Juancarlo Añez
-
http://www.neogeny.org
http://blog.neogeny.org 
mailto:[hidden email]
---  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Wilkins [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 6:22 AM
> To: Discussion for Jetty development.; jetty-dev; jetty-user;
> jetty-announce
> Subject: [jetty-discuss] Jetty @ Eclipse ?
>
>
> Dear Jetty committers, contributors & community,
>
> It has been suggested that the Jetty project submit a proposal to move
> to the Eclipse foundation.  This is an suggestion that I
> believe should
> be given serious consideration as I can see benefits for all the
> stakeholders.
>
> The Eclipse foundation is about much more than the Eclipse
> IDE.  Through
> it's equinox, OSGi and runtime efforts, it is an open source
> foundation
> very much committed to providing the legal, procedural and technical
> infrastructure for component based software, developed by
> communities and
> used by everyone from hobbyists through enterprises.
>
> The Jetty project is a successful HTTP server and servlet container,
> developed by communities, with a component-based OSGi-friendly
> architecture, used by hundreds of thousands of websites and embedded
> in many many projects and products: not least the Eclipse IDE and
> equinox runtime.
>
> There are obvious synergies between Eclipse and Jetty, thus we have
> already responded to the suggestion with some preliminary discussions
> as to how Jetty @ Eclipse could work:
>
>   + The Jetty 6.x version would not be effected. It would remain
>     at codehaus and would continue to be maintained for some time.
>
>   + The upcoming Jetty 7.x version for servlet-3.0 be hosted
> by Eclipse
>     and would be dual licensed with both the current Apache
> 2.0 license
>     and the Eclipse Public License (EPL).
>
>   + Copyright assignment would remain as they are and the contributor
>     license agreements would be updated, probably remaining
> substantially
>     on the lines of the apache contributors agreement, but
> with aspects
>     of the Eclipse as well.
>
>   + The project leadership would essentially remain the same,
>     but with perhaps a little less despotic power.
>
>   + The core jetty source would be updated to use an org.eclipse
>     package hierarchy.
>
>   + Some contrib packages and bundles would remain at codehaus
>     (eg grizzly, ant, hightide) or be offered to the related
>     projects (eg cometd to dojo, jboss integration to redhat).
>     Potentially hightide @ codehaus could receive more focus
>     as the app server bundle of Jetty, while jetty @ eclipse
>     would be the component based core.
>
>   + The project would continue under the current leadership, with
>     some assistance from Eclipse sponsors.  I intend to
>     continue to lead the project for the foreseeable
>     future.
>
> Importantly, Jetty @ eclipse would
>
>   - not be dependent on OSGi.  Jetty is already OSGi friendly and I
>     would expect it to become more so. But Jetty will remain
>     framework neutral and the components will continue to be
>     able to be assembled with your choice of java, jetty XML,
>     spring, OSGi, plexus, xbean, geronimo, jboss, Jonas,
>     groovy, etc. etc.
>
>   - not be a commercial deal. No payments or contracts would be
>     involved. Obviously the key contributors (eg webtide) do not
>     see such a move as harmful to their commercial interests, but the
>     deal would not change the fact that those contributors would still
>     need to find clients and sell them their particular value
>     add with regards to the project.
>
>   - not be the creation of an Eclipse Java EE application server.
>     Jetty would continue to be a component that integrates
>     well with many many software projects, including most
>     Java EE application servers.
>
> So is there a need to move or change? Why can't Jetty just
> stay at codehaus and continue as a  despotocracy?
>
> Well, we could just stay. but I think we would be leaving
> a great opportunity on the table if we did so. An opportunity
> that I see as having very little downside for the project
> or the community.
>
> The key opportunity of a move to Eclipse is to grow the
> Jetty community and a growing community is good for all
> parties as it:
>
>   + brings new use-cases and ideas to the project.
>
>   + brings new potential contributors and resources.
>
>   + provides increased opportunities for contributors
>     to make a commercial return on their investment in the
>     project, and thus in turn invest more in the project.
>
>   + maintains momentum and activity to avoid the project
>     stagnating.
>
> I believe that a move to Eclipse will grow the Jetty
> community for a number of reasons:
>
>   + Publicity of the change and use of the Eclipse brand.
>
>   + The addition of the choice of the EPL
>
>   + Closer relationships with the growing OSGi communities
>
>   + Diminishing the perception that Jetty is a 1 man or
>     1 company project ( although I plan to continue to
>     lead the project for the foreseeable future).
>
>   + Improved quality through more rigorous release policies
>     and procedures.
>
>   + Improved legal status through the foundations due
>     diligence and procedures.
>
> Additional positives from such a move would be:
>
>   + taking the opportunity of repackaging to fix some
>     bad practises (eg packages split over jars).
>
>   + potentially some greater gravitas when representing
>     the projects interests in standards bodies etc.
>
>   + the opportunity to help drive the OSGi standards
>     past the 2.4 servlet spec.
>
> So what would be the down side of this?
>
>   - There will be a bit more procedure and process needed
>     before making releases.  Considering the dufas 6.1.12
>     release, this is a good thing for the community and
>     will only be a cost to the core contributors.
>
>   - Developers will need to change their code to use
>     the org.eclipse packages.   But this will be done
>     with the move to jetty 7, which will require some
>     API changes anyway, and tools can be provided to
>     ease the change.    We will also take the opportunity
>     to fix some of the incorrect packaging issues that
>     have developed over the years.
>
>   - There will be the faff of moving mailing lists and
>     websites etc.  But I'm hoping that there may be some
>     additional resources available to help improve the
>     website.
>
>   - We will be substantially moving away from codehaus,
>     who have provided us with a home for many years.
>     However, potentially there could be more focus on
>     Hightide @ codehaus as the app server distro of jetty.
>
>   - I don't know? you tell me? What other issues
>     do you see or concerns do you have,  if we were to
>     move the project to Eclipse?
>
>
> The process of a move to Eclipse would be that after
> soliciting feedback from yourselves I will then
> solicit feedback from the jetty community.
>
> I would prepare a proposal to be presented to the Eclipse
> foundation in January 2009.   If accepted, we would target
> EclipseCon in March for the code to be moved
> to Eclipse, with a target stable release of Jetty 7
> in time for JavaOne in June.
>
> If any of you have explicitly maintained the copyright
> of code contributed to Jetty, then I would like to seek
> your confirmation that dual licensing with the EPL.
>
> Thanks again for your contributions to this project
> and I hope that together we can continue to make Jetty
> a quality software component used by many.
>
> regards
>
>
>
>
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Re: [jetty-discuss] Jetty @ Eclipse ?

Greg Wilkins-5
Juancarlo Añez wrote:
> Greg,
>
> On my part, it's your call.
>
> One of the risks I see is that eclipsefying Jetty could make it more
> complex, when one of the hallmarks of Jetty is simplicity and minimalism.

Juancarlo,

that indeed was one of my initial fears - that eclipse would expect changes
to the core of Jetty and perhaps OSGi dependencies.

But in my discussions with them, it has become clear that they truly are
component minded, and that while they are keen for Jetty to better work
with OSGi, they are not about to insist that we change the core.

However, I actually see the effort to become more OSGi friendly as a way
to increase the simplicity and minimalism of Jetty.    Building Jetty
as an app server tends to allow extra dependencies to develop and we've
probably made a few packaging mistakes in the past with Jetty.

Renewing our focus on components, will mean that we need to cleanup
those dependencies and packaging somewhat, so that Jetty - already very
modular - will become even more so.

I see the focus of the project at eclipse would be to build great
HTTP and servlet components.

The Jetty hightide project would remain at codehaus and would be focused
on providing a great application server, built from the eclipse (and other)
components.

cheers


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