Jasper JSP for Jetty 6!

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Jasper JSP for Jetty 6!

Greg Wilkins-5

All,

I'm thinking hard about "forking" the apache jasper project into
the Jetty 6 repository.   I want to do this so that:

 + commons logging can be removed and forgotten.

 + the java5 syntatic suger that is creeping in can be
   removed ( yeah I like generics too... but I don't want
   cut off all 1.4 users just to avoid a caste).
 
I don't think I would do this as a full fork... rather
a mechanism to checkout a version of jasper and apply
a set of patches - then build it.   So we would
maintain the patches and not a fork.

I think this will give us a better end product, but
with more work to do and the risk of ending up doing
a real fork.

thoughts??? Comments?????

cheers



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Re: Jasper JSP for Jetty 6!

秦贤向
Hello,

Thanks your great work.
I don't oppose to fork jasper into jetty 6 repository and reserve 1.4 users.
But if from point about performance and user experience and just for me personal,I would use generics, and release 1.4 level target version for 1.4 user.
according to that I known, In many case some user had to use lower  version, just because providers had not provide higher version  products because of many many reasons. and so this and so that, all stop at lower version.
So, I agree newers.

Regards,

qinxian


2006/3/16, Greg Wilkins <[hidden email]>:

All,

I'm thinking hard about "forking" the apache jasper project into
the Jetty 6 repository.   I want to do this so that:

+ commons logging can be removed and forgotten.

+ the java5 syntatic suger that is creeping in can be
   removed ( yeah I like generics too... but I don't want
   cut off all 1.4 users just to avoid a caste).

I don't think I would do this as a full fork... rather
a mechanism to checkout a version of jasper and apply
a set of patches - then build it.   So we would
maintain the patches and not a fork.

I think this will give us a better end product, but
with more work to do and the risk of ending up doing
a real fork.

thoughts??? Comments?????

cheers



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Re: Jasper JSP for Jetty 6!

Michel Drescher
In reply to this post by Greg Wilkins-5
Greg,

On 16 Mar 2006, at 12:49, Greg Wilkins wrote:

> All,
>
> I'm thinking hard about "forking" the apache jasper project into
> the Jetty 6 repository.   I want to do this so that:
>
>  + commons logging can be removed and forgotten.

Yippieeh! Cheers! Here's to Greg! ;-)

>  + the java5 syntatic suger that is creeping in can be
>    removed ( yeah I like generics too... but I don't want
>    cut off all 1.4 users just to avoid a caste).

You know that you can set the byte code compatibility level to 1.4,  
1.3, 1.2, even 1.1

So on the source code level, you can use all the cool Java 5 stuff  
while the generated class files are 1.4 compatible...

> I don't think I would do this as a full fork... rather
> a mechanism to checkout a version of jasper and apply
> a set of patches - then build it.   So we would
> maintain the patches and not a fork.
>
> I think this will give us a better end product, but
> with more work to do and the risk of ending up doing
> a real fork.

Sounds good to me.

Cheers,
Michel



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Re: Jasper JSP for Jetty 6!

Chris Nokleberg
On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 14:36:35 +0000, Michel Drescher wrote:
> You know that you can set the byte code compatibility level to 1.4,  
> 1.3, 1.2, even 1.1
>
> So on the source code level, you can use all the cool Java 5 stuff  
> while the generated class files are 1.4 compatible...

You can -target 1.[123] if you use -source 1.4 or lower. If you use
-source 1.5 you must target 1.5.

If you want to use JDK 1.5 source features but have 1.4 compatible
bytecode you should look at Retrotranslator (or the Jasper folks should):

  http://retrotranslator.sourceforge.net/

Chris




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Re: Jasper JSP for Jetty 6!

Greg Wilkins-5
In reply to this post by Michel Drescher
Michel Drescher wrote:

>>  + the java5 syntatic suger that is creeping in can be
>>    removed ( yeah I like generics too... but I don't want
>>    cut off all 1.4 users just to avoid a caste).
>
>
> You know that you can set the byte code compatibility level to 1.4,
> 1.3, 1.2, even 1.1
>
> So on the source code level, you can use all the cool Java 5 stuff
> while the generated class files are 1.4 compatible...


Are you sure?
i get the following error:

gregw@brick: ~/src/Jetty_6/modules/jasper
[634] java -version
java version "1.5.0_06"
Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 1.5.0_06-b05)
Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.5.0_06-b05, mixed mode, sharing)

gregw@brick: ~/src/Jetty_6/modules/jasper
[635] javac -source 1.5 -target 1.4
javac: source release 1.5 requires target release 1.5




cheers


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Re: Jasper JSP for Jetty 6!

Greg Wilkins-5

This is a little academic now....
I just realized that the next release of JSP includes
generics in the javax.servlet.jsp and javax.el  APIs

So it is going to be 1.5 only for that version of jasper!

What a pain - while I like those new features, I think the
specs should be a bit conservative when adopting such
features!

Looks like we will have to provide an option of a
JSP 2.0 version for the 1.4 users out there!  DOH!



Greg Wilkins wrote:

> Michel Drescher wrote:
>
>>> + the java5 syntatic suger that is creeping in can be
>>>   removed ( yeah I like generics too... but I don't want
>>>   cut off all 1.4 users just to avoid a caste).
>>
>>
>>You know that you can set the byte code compatibility level to 1.4,
>>1.3, 1.2, even 1.1
>>
>>So on the source code level, you can use all the cool Java 5 stuff
>>while the generated class files are 1.4 compatible...
>
>
>
> Are you sure?
> i get the following error:
>
> gregw@brick: ~/src/Jetty_6/modules/jasper
> [634] java -version
> java version "1.5.0_06"
> Java(TM) 2 Runtime Environment, Standard Edition (build 1.5.0_06-b05)
> Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (build 1.5.0_06-b05, mixed mode, sharing)
>
> gregw@brick: ~/src/Jetty_6/modules/jasper
> [635] javac -source 1.5 -target 1.4
> javac: source release 1.5 requires target release 1.5
>
>
>
>
> cheers
>
>
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Re: Jasper JSP for Jetty 6!

Colin Canfield-2
In reply to this post by 秦贤向

Considering a lot of people use jetty in embedded devices and I don't believe there are any 1.5 compliant J2ME servers around (or even 1.4 for that matter!); maybe that influences the decision.  Unfortunately, generics are nice....

Colin


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0412 197 943
[hidden email]

---------- Original Message -----------
From: "ÇØÏÍÏò" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 21:26:53 +0800
Subject: Re: [jetty-discuss] Jasper JSP for Jetty 6!

> Hello,
>
> Thanks your great work.
> I don't oppose to fork jasper into jetty 6 repository and reserve 1.4 users.
> But if from point about performance and user experience and just for me personal,I would use generics, and release 1.4 level target version for 1.4 user.
> according to that I known, In many case some user had to use lower  version, just because providers had not provide higher version  products because of many many reasons. and so this and so that, all stop at lower version.
> So, I agree newers.
>
> Regards,
>
> qinxian
>
> 2006/3/16, Greg Wilkins <[hidden email]>:

> All,
>
> I'm thinking hard about "forking" the apache jasper project into
> the Jetty 6 repository.   I want to do this so that:
>
> + commons logging can be removed and forgotten.
>
> + the java5 syntatic suger that is creeping in can be
>    removed ( yeah I like generics too... but I don't want
>    cut off all 1.4 users just to avoid a caste).
>
> I don't think I would do this as a full fork... rather
> a mechanism to checkout a version of jasper and apply
> a set of patches - then build it.   So we would
> maintain the patches and not a fork.
>
> I think this will give us a better end product, but
> with more work to do and the risk of ending up doing
> a real fork.
>
> thoughts??? Comments?????
>
> cheers
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language
> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast
> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory!
> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642
> _______________________________________________
> jetty-discuss mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jetty-discuss
>

>

> --
> ÏòÇØÏÍ
------- End of Original Message -------
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Re: Jasper JSP for Jetty 6!

Greg Wilkins-5
In reply to this post by 秦贤向

Qinxian,

well you are the guy trying to use jdk6 !-)

Firstly,  I don't plan on doing a hard fork.  instead a soft fork,
where the code is checked out and a patch applied.   So the jasper
code would not be checked into the jetty repo.

With this approach, we can have several patches and configure
which get applied:

 0) fix defects (eg currently missing ServletContext.getContextPath())
 1) remove JCL
 2) remove java5 features

We will also have the option of build jetty with the current JSP2.0
jasper.

Note that I plan to call these patched versions jesper  to avoid
confusion with the real jasper releases.

I have the build working already with 0) - I just need to get the
maven build system doing the checkout magic (that wont check it out
every build).

cheers





秦贤向 wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Thanks your great work.
> I don't oppose to fork jasper into jetty 6 repository and reserve 1.4 users.
> But if from point about performance and user experience and just for me
> personal,I would use generics, and release 1.4 level target version for
> 1.4 user.
> according to that I known, In many case some user had to use lower
> version, just because providers had not provide higher version  products
> because of many many reasons. and so this and so that, all stop at lower
> version.
> So, I agree newers.
>
> Regards,
>
> qinxian
>
>
> 2006/3/16, Greg Wilkins <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>:
>
>
>     All,
>
>     I'm thinking hard about "forking" the apache jasper project into
>     the Jetty 6 repository.   I want to do this so that:
>
>     + commons logging can be removed and forgotten.
>
>     + the java5 syntatic suger that is creeping in can be
>        removed ( yeah I like generics too... but I don't want
>        cut off all 1.4 users just to avoid a caste).
>
>     I don't think I would do this as a full fork... rather
>     a mechanism to checkout a version of jasper and apply
>     a set of patches - then build it.   So we would
>     maintain the patches and not a fork.
>
>     I think this will give us a better end product, but
>     with more work to do and the risk of ending up doing
>     a real fork.
>
>     thoughts??? Comments?????
>
>     cheers
>
>
>
>     -------------------------------------------------------
>     This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting
>     language
>     that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live
>     webcast
>     and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding
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>     <http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642>
>     _______________________________________________
>     jetty-discuss mailing list
>     [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>     https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jetty-discuss
>
>
>
>
> --
> 向秦贤



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Re: Jasper JSP for Jetty 6!

Greg Wilkins-5
In reply to this post by Greg Wilkins-5

Well I've done it!

I could not work out how to do the checkout and patch within maven,
so the code is actually checked in now.

There are two new modules:

  jsp-api-2.1
  jesper

both of with need java5  to compile

the old jsp module is now jsp-api-2.0  and it has the
jasper 2.0 dependencies.  So that can be used for 1.4 systems.


I have done a really dumb strippig out of all logging from
jasper.   This is dangerous, but at least it means we can run without
any JCL!!!   I will do something more intelligent soon.

please give it a go!

cheers


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Re: Jasper JSP for Jetty 6!

Greg Wilkins-5
In reply to this post by Greg Wilkins-5

The other thing I'd like to get rid of, is the hard xerces dependencies!



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Re: Jasper JSP for Jetty 6!

Ceki Gulcu-2
In reply to this post by Greg Wilkins-5

Hello Greg,

Wouldn't it be a drag to apply you patches each time jasper changes? From a
cursory look at Jasper, there are 18 classes containing log statements. I
reckon that the patching could be done in about 30 minutes.

Have you considered a tool to automate the process? Do you know of any tool
which can help refactor code outside an IDE? If not, how would you go about
creating a refactoring tool able to remove JCL calls and replace them with
SLF4J or similar?

As for back porting JDK 1.5 features, there are two dimensions two
consider. New language features can be supported either by patching the
code or by retroweaver. However, retroweaver cannot compensate for *all* of
the new classes or methods specific to JDK 1.5 although it compensates for
many of the more common ones.

At 01:49 PM 3/16/2006, Greg Wilkins wrote:

>All,
>
>I'm thinking hard about "forking" the apache jasper project into
>the Jetty 6 repository.   I want to do this so that:
>
>  + commons logging can be removed and forgotten.
>
>  + the java5 syntatic suger that is creeping in can be
>    removed ( yeah I like generics too... but I don't want
>    cut off all 1.4 users just to avoid a caste).
>
>I don't think I would do this as a full fork... rather
>a mechanism to checkout a version of jasper and apply
>a set of patches - then build it.   So we would
>maintain the patches and not a fork.
>
>I think this will give us a better end product, but
>with more work to do and the risk of ending up doing
>a real fork.
>
>thoughts??? Comments?????
>
>cheers

--
Ceki Gülcü
http://ceki.blogspot.com/



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Re: Jasper JSP for Jetty 6!

Niclas Hedhman
On Wednesday 22 March 2006 00:44, Ceki Gülcü wrote:
> Have you considered a tool to automate the process? Do you know of any tool
> which can help refactor code outside an IDE? If not, how would you go about
> creating a refactoring tool able to remove JCL calls and replace them with
> SLF4J or similar?

I would be more drastic :o)

Copy the JCL code into your own repository, modify that API to do what you
need, and ensure that JCL is not loaded from "anywhere"...

Or, Ceki could include JCL API in SLF4J, and a big note is available about how
to get things to work... (but he has previously been sceptical about it).


Cheers
Niclas


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Re: Jasper JSP for Jetty 6!

Ceki Gulcu-2

Hi Niclas,

At 01:58 AM 3/22/2006, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
>I would be more drastic :o

:-)

>Copy the JCL code into your own repository, modify that API to do what you
>need, and ensure that JCL is not loaded from "anywhere"...
>
>Or, Ceki could include JCL API in SLF4J, and a big note is available about
>how
>to get things to work... (but he has previously been sceptical about it).

Are you aware of jcl104-over-slf4j [1]?

I would still like your comments about a refactoring tool capable of
replacing calls to one logging API with calls to another logging API.
However, the question is off topic here so I'll take it the SLF4J list. My
apologies for the distraction.

[1] http://www.slf4j.org/manual.html#gradual

>Cheers
>Niclas

--
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http://ceki.blogspot.com/



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Re: Jasper JSP for Jetty 6!

Tim Vernum
In reply to this post by Ceki Gulcu-2

> Have you considered a tool to automate the process? Do you know of  
> any tool which can help refactor code outside an IDE? If not, how  
> would you go about creating a refactoring tool able to remove JCL  
> calls and replace them with SLF4J or similar?

I imagine byte code manipulation might be simpler.
In the Jesper case it might be as simple as replacing all  
declarations of a JCL "Log" object with a reference to something  
JesperLog.INSTANCE, and then make sure JesperLog is interface  
compatible with JCL.

--
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Re: Jasper JSP for Jetty 6!

Ceki Gulcu-2
At 12:43 PM 3/22/2006, Tim Vernum wrote:

>>Have you considered a tool to automate the process? Do you know of
>>any tool which can help refactor code outside an IDE? If not, how
>>would you go about creating a refactoring tool able to remove JCL
>>calls and replace them with SLF4J or similar?
>
>I imagine byte code manipulation might be simpler.
>In the Jesper case it might be as simple as replacing all
>declarations of a JCL "Log" object with a reference to something
>JesperLog.INSTANCE, and then make sure JesperLog is interface
>compatible with JCL.

To ensure peace of mind on a long term basis, my intention was to help
projects perform the changes at the source code level. Byte code
manipulation may be simple but it contradicts the peace of mind requirement
as many developers have doubts about byte code manipulators.

Are you certain about the desirability of yet another logging interface?
Jetty already has its own. If Jesper introduced another interface, then the
end-user would be forced to configure each interface separately.

>--
>Tim Vernum

--
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http://ceki.blogspot.com/



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Re: Jetty6 ETA [was; Jasper JSP for Jetty 6!]

Niclas Hedhman
In reply to this post by Ceki Gulcu-2
On Wednesday 22 March 2006 17:55, Ceki Gülcü wrote:
> At 01:58 AM 3/22/2006, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> >Or, Ceki could include JCL API in SLF4J, and a big note is available about
> >how
> >to get things to work... (but he has previously been sceptical about it).
>
> Are you aware of jcl104-over-slf4j [1]?

Exactly!!! I have not followed your escapades. Been busy with OSGi stuff where
I do roughly the same thing[1], and prepping for a Jetty6 in Bundle.

Speaking of that... Greg, is there a ETA of the Jetty6 final ??


Cheers
Niclas

[1] http://wiki.ops4j.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=pax:logging


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Re: Jasper JSP for Jetty 6!

Tim Vernum
In reply to this post by Ceki Gulcu-2
> To ensure peace of mind on a long term basis, my intention was to  
> help projects perform the changes at the source code level. Byte  
> code manipulation may be simple but it contradicts the peace of  
> mind requirement as many developers have doubts about byte code  
> manipulators.

Then I'd suggest you look at JRefactory. http://jrefactory.sf.net/ it  
can automate refactorings to some extent - not sure if it will fit  
your needs exactly.



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Re: Jasper JSP for Jetty 6!

Ceki Gulcu-2
At 12:38 PM 3/23/2006, Tim Vernum wrote:

>Then I'd suggest you look at JRefactory. http://jrefactory.sf.net/ it
>can automate refactorings to some extent - not sure if it will fit
>your needs exactly.

Tim,

Thanks for the pointer. Jrefactory is exactly the kind of tool I am
interested in. I had previously looked at various refactoring tools. Those
that seemed to be maintained were all commercial while the open source ones
looked like they had not been touched in the last couple of years, e.g.
freefactor, and Package Structure Analysis Tool (pasta). Are you yourself a
Jfactory user ?

--
Ceki Gülcü
http://ceki.blogspot.com/



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Re: Jasper JSP for Jetty 6!

Tim Vernum
> Are you yourself a Jfactory user ?

I'm afraid not. It's just something I'd seen on my travels in  
cyberspace.



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Re: Jasper JSP for Jetty 6!

Greg Wilkins-5
In reply to this post by Ceki Gulcu-2
Ceki Gülcü wrote:
>
> Hello Greg,
>
> Wouldn't it be a drag to apply you patches each time jasper changes?
> From a cursory look at Jasper, there are 18 classes containing log
> statements. I reckon that the patching could be done in about 30 minutes.
>
> Have you considered a tool to automate the process?

yes - it's called patch :-)

As it is, I've now put the jasper source in jetty svn, so I will more likely
apply patches generated from svn diff in the jasper repository to keep it
up to date.

But if they frequently add log statements, then automated refactoring may
be a help.

cheers




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